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RP1000 Thread :: Gig report - using RP1000 DIRECT 

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HCarlH

member since: 07/30/2008
messages: 88
 

Subject:

Gig report - using RP1000 DIRECT

06/21/2009


Gear Used:
RP1000 -> Behringer B212A powered monitor -> direct to mixing board
Kramer Pacer Deluxe (S/S/H)


Today I played the most **EXTREME HEAT FROM H.E.L.L. GIG** in my life. It was 103 degrees with HEAVY humidty.



This time I took a high powered blower fan and tons of Gatorade. It was still a bit hard to breathe such heavy air. It was because of these gig conditions that I decided to leave the Rivera amp behind and take a smaller powered monitor using only the modeling of the RP1000. Last night I spent several hours trying to get patches for our tunes. The option anxiety in this unit makes it take a while. "Should I use this overdrive model or this distortion model"? I still didn't get everything perfect, but it's close and was usable for today. I'll have to tweak the patches more.

I found out a couple of important things.

If you're making patches (I use Xedit), make sure you save each patch (to the computer) as soon as you're done creating it. I was doing entire backups every 10 minutes or so. Somthing was screwy with a few patches..I would go back and forth between
editing on the machine and using the software. A couple of the patches ended up nothing like I remember programming them.

One ended up with something that sounded like an Octavia effect...DEFINITELY NOT what I had previously programmed. So I did a Factory Reset and then restored my patches. Good to go again. I will say that I got a bit worried about this possibly messing
up on the gig, so I took my POD 2 and put in my cord bag just in case I had to use it as a backup (It wasn't needed).

Another thing concerns the problem others are having using the XLR outs. I use this setup at home (RP1000 -> powered monitor) to create/check patches. I always use the XLR. No problem. The monitor has an XLR pass through so I can daisy chain RP to
monitor to the mixing board. Well, when I used XLR to the monitor and then another XLR to mixing board, I got a VERY low signal (barely audible) to the monitor...even with it cranked ALL THE WAY. I then disconnected the XLR to monitor cord and
substituted a guitar cord from the standard MONO RP out to the monitor 1/4 inch input jack.

Back to normal.

Now, it could have been possible the mixing board had the phantom power on...I don't know, but I just decided to go with what worked....the guitar cord from RP to monitor while still using the XLR from monitor to mixing board. It sounded the same.

I still need to tweak the sounds as I'm not totally satisfied with my patches, but overall the system worked very well. I played my Kramer Pacer Deluxe (S/S/H) and only used the one guitar..risky if I broke a string, but I was going to take the least amount of equipment necessary.

I used Pedalboard mode and had about six patches I used consistently...all home made except for one . Three were for White Wedding. One using chorus for the Bm arpeggio at the beginning, one for the main verse power chord section, and one for the
mid-song heavy reverb and delay guitar stuff. For clean tones, I created a Twin Reverb patch and always had a small bit of compression on. I added distortion (can't recall which model right now) for Play That Funky Music. Solo Dly was the only stock patch I used for extended solos, but I turned off the delay.

I have found that in our band, less effects work better in the mix. Some of our keyboard parts are dense. Yeah, we use MIDI files with the rest of the band playing along. The key player adds parts, but many of the files on his Roland Fantom also have backing vocals the two singers have previously recorded. The drummer plays to a click. Not the most musically satisfying situation...it's a bit stiff. But we get a lot of complements on our sound. We created the band for the purpose of making money (and to have fun). If Madonna can do it, we are too.

I had more than enough volume to hear myself. The key player had a Roland amp for monitoring purposes, but nobody else had an amp on stage....it was all direct and using monitors. (Unfortunately, the bass player could not hear very well with this
setup, so for now he's back to using an amp next gig. He's out of work so buying something else is out of the question for now. I dread this as he's REALLY loud.)

I'm going to stick with this setup for this particular gig/venue as it is WAY more convenient. We have to move our equipment several hundred feet from a delivery area using carts over a brick road. By the end of this gig I survived, but the key
player looked like he was about to over heat.

For cooler and easier playing situations, I will use the Rivera in conjunction with the RP1000. But as I get to tweak the sounds of the RP1000 more, that may change to the same setup I used today.

At the very least, I'm going to add some of the modeled tones to my Rivera sounds.

mannydingo

member since: 02/11/2009
messages: 1747
 

Subject:

Re: Gig report - using RP1000 DIRECT

06/21/2009


Thank you for your very informative report. Don't be shy about adding more whenever you do more. This is helpful to many.

HCarlH

member since: 07/30/2008
messages: 88
 

Subject:

Re: Gig report - using RP1000 DIRECT

06/23/2009


I found this on mustbebeta.com. This is pretty much what I did which caused the weird Octavia sound effects mentioned in my original post above:

There is a bug when using X-Edit that can cause serious problems.
This bug is in every product since the RP250.
Manually switching to another preset after dragging a user preset to a new location
using X-Edit. The new preset may be unstable.

joker10

member since: 09/08/2007
messages: 578
 

Subject:

Re: Gig report - using RP1000 DIRECT

06/23/2009


You nailed it carl. Before x edit 2.3 if I remember correctly I never saw the problem you are describing. With previous versions you could not drag and drop. I started to notice this problem after 2.3 was released on my 250. I would rather live with it and have the option of dragging and dropping than not having that option. When it happens to me I just unplug the unit and plug it back in and all is well.
Sounds like the guy who played the gig did so in Florida.

HCarlH

member since: 07/30/2008
messages: 88
 

Subject:

Re: Gig report - using RP1000 DIRECT

06/23/2009



******************************************
joker10 wrote:

When it happens to me I just unplug the unit and plug it back in and all is well. Sounds like the guy who played the gig did so in Florida.>>
******************************************

In my case, turning off the unit and back on did nothing. I had to reload the patch.

Yes, it was in NE FL. The worst climate in the USA. :O
That prompted my attempt to go direct and not schlepp a ton of equipment that day.

I have to go to a band rehearsal now, but after I get back tonight, I have some email replies from Digitech Tech Support about the XLR out problem and more to post.
Stay tuned.

Carl

GhostGuest

member since: 04/21/2009
messages: 126
 

Subject:

Re: Gig report - using RP1000 DIRECT

07/15/2009


Hey Carl, I have a couple of questions:

- Wich XLR output do you use to the mixing board? Left or right?
- When you use this XLR output, does it send a stereo signal (left and right channel united, like the 1/4 mono output), or just it send one channel (left or right signal)?

I wonder if I use just one XLR output to the mix instead the 1/4, I'll lose the stereo sound (delay, chorus, etc.)

Thanks!

HCarlH

member since: 07/30/2008
messages: 88
 

Subject:

Re: Gig report - using RP1000 DIRECT

07/16/2009


****************************************
GhostGuest wrote:

- Which XLR output do you use to the mixing board? Left or right?

- When you use this XLR output, does it send a stereo signal (left and right channel united, like the 1/4 mono output), or just it send one channel (left or right signal)?

I wonder if I use just one XLR output to the mix instead the 1/4, I'll lose the stereo sound (delay, chorus, etc.)

Thanks!

****************************************


GG, I tried the Left XLR, but the sound cut out.....no doubt due to the XLR problem mentioned elsewhere on this board.

I instead used the 1/4 output to my personal powered monitor, then used an XLR cord from the monitor to the mixing board. That was a way to work around the problem.

As the reply from Tech. Support to me shows (see the thread on this board about my email), the XLRs are ALWAYS stereo....you must send both XLRs to the mixing board if you want a true representation of your effected signal.

Otherwise, use the 1/4 mono summed output like I do.

I know somebody else here sent their unit back for repair so they could use the XLR direct to the board, but my work around is OK for me.

joker10

member since: 09/08/2007
messages: 578
 

Subject:

Re: Gig report - using RP1000 DIRECT

09/25/2009


Hcarl how do you set the built in eq on that behringer 212a? I picked one up today, and it seems like I have to lower the low eq and raise the high eq to get anything out of it that sounds normal. I have only had a couple of hours to mess with it but I cant get it to sound as good as my guitar amp. Any pointers or tips?

singtall

member since: 02/12/2006
messages: 645
 

Subject:

Re: Gig report - using RP1000 DIRECT

09/25/2009


presets that are designed using a real guitar amp will most probably need to be tweaked for direct use.

don't be afraid to use the behringer's eq or the rp1000 post eq to get it to sound right.

also try changing which cabinet sim you are using.

HCarlH

member since: 07/30/2008
messages: 88
 

Subject:

Re: Gig report - using RP1000 DIRECT

09/26/2009


*****************************************************
joker10 wrote:

Hcarl how do you set the built in eq on that behringer 212a? I picked one up today, and it seems like I have to lower the low eq and raise the high eq to get anything out of it that sounds normal. I have only had a couple of hours to mess with it but I cant get it to sound as good as my guitar amp. Any pointers or tips?
*****************************************************

Joker,

I have found that if you put any volume on the Behringer LEVEL control (anything past 10 o'clock), it's way too bassy. I always turn the bass control on the Behringer FULLY COUNTERCLOCKWISE (-15)

If you look at the HIGH control, each mark is an increment of 3. Five marks to the right of 0 give you +3, +6, +9, +12, +15. On the negative side, it's the opposite down to -15. I set the HIGH control to +3 (first mark to the right of zero).

I try and get it as flat as possible...the monitor should not add nor subtract from the RP....it should give you a representation of the true sound. I admit the Behringer is nowhere in the same league as the QSC K series. I would have saved up for one of those, but the price of the Behringer was too attractive.

Ideally you should set your patches as it comes out of the P.A.
and compare to your stage monitor.
That's not always possible, but it lets you know what the audience is hearing.

What you could try is to take a CD player (with a CD that you're very familiar in how it sounds) and go direct to the Behringer with it.
Play the CD and EQ to where it sounds flat.

I still use the Behringer for home use in making patches (then tweak to an amp later....see below) and for band rehearsals.

But...

For the most part, I have gone back to using the 4CM with my amp and mic'ing the amp. I *know* that what comes ouf of the amp is what the sound guy is getting as opposed to a budget monitor that may not be as flat as a more costly monitor.

And also, my amp is only loud enough for me to hear myself...which is the same volume as the monitor would be any way....so I might as well use the amp and get a better tone by turning off the cab sims and using the RP as a preamp.

Another suggestion is to get a board recording of your band playing and see how that sounds to what you're hearing on stage.
If you have a wireless, you can also go out in the audience and hear it.

Manny loves monitors and no tubes....but he's never heard a REALLY good tube amp. He's going to be hating it if he ever does. :D

mannydingo

member since: 02/11/2009
messages: 1747
 

Subject:

Re: Gig report - using RP1000 DIRECT

09/26/2009


You're right, I haven't every owned a quality tube amp. In fact, I've never owned one period. However, I have been right next to one hearing the guitar player whaling away. I have also been to numerous concerts with tube amps and only a scant few FRFR types. I did not see enough of a reason to go to tubes. A couple of the tube scenarios were better than the FRFR setups but others were worse. That leads me to believe it's how it's set up by whomever is doing the sound. When the little Rockman first came out and I heard that plugged into a solid state home stereo, I was convinced. You can sound good without tubes.

Now, as far as the guitarist, himself, I have a hard time doubting that you tube freaks honestly hear it sounding better. I know you like what you hear. From what I've heard, even if it sounds better, the difference is not enough to buy a guitar amp. I'm FRFR and not looking back. Wait, I can't look back since I've never owned one, ha ha. Mic-ing adds too many variables and tube amps sound different depending on the weather, voltage drops and all that other stuff I hear you tube guys talk about. You even have to replace them. I ain't goin' backward in technology. It ain't happenin' My RP1000 (or when I own a GSP again) sounds more than good enough. It's only going to get better. In fact, with the Axe-FX, it already is. It's just a terrible value. If these Digitechs didn't exist, I would sell whatever I had to sell to get one. It's definitely better than what we have.

joker10

member since: 09/08/2007
messages: 578
 

Subject:

Re: Gig report - using RP1000 DIRECT

09/27/2009


My little tube amp sounds pretty good, but not the same as the huge one that I heard. I went into a bar that we go to frequently and as soon as I walked in I said damn that guitarist has his tone down. Thats the best sounding guitarist that I have heard here. I have seen better players but the sound was just better. I looked up and he had this massive Peavey tube stack there. Thats the first time I have ever been around an amp like that. I talked to him during their break and he said that the lead singer\guitarist liked to go POD into the PA but he preferred the big tube amp. I cant see how I could be conditioned to like it better when I never heard anything like that live before. Was it the amp or was it just that this guy could eq it better than the others? Was it just a combination of this amp and his guitar? I am not sure, I just know it sounded good. Now am I going to go and buy an amp that is taller than me with massive amounts of tube that cost a fortune to replace every year? No, but I am probably going to buy a Hot Rod Deluxe in the future. I love the sound of this amp. I cant get that sound out of the digitech.

mannydingo

member since: 02/11/2009
messages: 1747
 

Subject:

Re: Gig report - using RP1000 DIRECT

09/27/2009


Joker, you're very post shows how subjective this is and how a tube amp/cab combination that sounds better to you, doesn't to another. The perfect example is the singer/guitarist guy in the band you saw. He prefers the POD straight into the P.A. rather than his bandmate's tube sound. Mind you, he hears himself and the Peavey guy every time they play and rehearse. You only heard them that night. You have to wonder if in different acoustics things might even change for you. I don't think so but it's a possibility.

joker10

member since: 09/08/2007
messages: 578
 

Subject:

Re: Gig report - using RP1000 DIRECT

09/27/2009


You never know. I really agree its the sound that I liked, but others might not.

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